santo98rini
Senior Member
TÜRKÇE
- Feb 1, 2014
- #1
Hello everyone,
I saw 3 sentences in a book.
The book says, these 3 sentences have same meaning.
1) I suggested that she should buy a car.
2) I suggested that she buy a car.
3) I suggested that she bought a car.
According to me , sentence 2 is strange, maybe wrong.
Because, we normally use "she buys" not "she buy".
My question is ;
1) Is sentence-2 gramatically correct ?
2) If yes, why ? According to grammatical rules it should be "she buys" not "she buy"
bennymix
Senior Member
Now, Ontario, Canada. California; Princeton, NJ.
English (American).
- Feb 1, 2014
- #2
1) and 2) mean about the same. I like 2); it's fine. It's a subjunctive form: no 's.'
3) is odd, and probably doesn't fit the context we're talking about. It is possible, grammatically, but not applicable, here.
owlman5
Senior Member
Colorado
English-US
- Feb 1, 2014
- #3
Hello, santo98rini.
Sentence two is grammatically correct. It uses the present subjunctive "buy" after the verb "suggest". This is common in American English. The present subjunctive is not as common in other varieties of English.
cross-posted with Benny
pops91710
Senior Member
Chino, California
English, AE/Spanish-Mexico
- Feb 1, 2014
- #4
1) I suggested that she should buy a car.
2) I suggested that she buy a car.
You are confusing present tense with conditional (subjunctive?).
santo98rini
Senior Member
TÜRKÇE
- Feb 1, 2014
- #5
Thank you very much for your valuable answers.
I have never heard "SUBJUNCTIVE FORM" definition.
Is "subjunctive form" can be used only after "suggest" , or is it possible to use it for other verbs also ??
owlman5
Senior Member
Colorado
English-US
- Feb 1, 2014
- #6
santo98rini said:
Thank you very much for your valuable answers.
I have never heard "SUBJUNCTIVE FORM" definition.
Is "subjunctive form" can be used only after "suggest" , or is it possible to use it for other verbs also ??
You're welcome. It is also frequently used after other verbs in AE: recommend, insist, demand, prefer, etc.
santo98rini
Senior Member
TÜRKÇE
- Feb 1, 2014
- #7
owlman5 said:
You're welcome. It is also frequently used after other verbs in AE: recommend, insist, demand, prefer, etc.
Thank you.
I think , subjunctive form can be used with a few verbs only .
Maybe 10 verbs. Right ?
london calling
Senior Member
Salerno, Italy
UK English
- Feb 1, 2014
- #8
owlman5 said:
It is also frequently used after other verbs in AE: recommend, insist, demand, prefer, etc.
In BE as well.
owlman5
Senior Member
Colorado
English-US
- Feb 1, 2014
- #9
london calling said:
In BE as well.
That's a refreshing take on things, london calling. I'm used to replies from British members who think the present subjunctive is useless or dead in their speech and writing.
london calling
Senior Member
Salerno, Italy
UK English
- Feb 1, 2014
- #10
owlman5 said:
That's a refreshing take on things, london calling. I'm used to replies from British members who think the present subjunctive is useless or dead in their speech and writing.
I know, it's a constant battle, which I'm probably losing. When I said BE, I meant the Queen's English, which appears to be going by the board.....
DonnyB
Moderator Emeritus
Coventry, UK
English UK Southern Standard English
- Feb 1, 2014
- #11
london calling said:
I know, it's a constant battle, which I'm probably losing.
When I said BE, I meant the Queen's English, which appears to be going by the board.....
This is, sadly, all too true.
The reality is that version (1) of the OP's sentence is the one most BE speakers would instinctively choose for ordinary everyday use. I was taught to use the subjunctive correctly in school and so I still do (perhaps influenced by the fact I'm learning Italian where it's still very much alive and kicking. ) But I very much doubt the current generation of British schoolkids are taught what it is, let alone how to use it.
santo98rini
Senior Member
TÜRKÇE
- Mar 26, 2014
- #12
What about the past tense with subjynctive form ...
Could you please give us 2 examples with "suggest" (One for the present tense, one for the past tense)
entangledbank
Senior Member
London
English - South-East England
- Mar 26, 2014
- #13
Subjunctive clauses don't change their verb form. It's in the plain form ('buy', 'go', 'be') whatever the main verb is (past or present). So:
I suggest she buy a car.
I suggested she buy a car.
I am going to suggest she buy a car.
This is the usual construction in AmE. In BrE it is more common to use 'should'. This also is unchanged, and so is the verb after it - in the plain form after 'should' or any other modal:
I suggest she should buy a car.
I suggested she should buy a car.
In BrE but not AmE you can also use a finite verb (a verb with tense). This changes according to the tense of the main verb:
I suggest she buys a car. [present + present]
I suggested she bought a car. [past + past]
santo98rini
Senior Member
TÜRKÇE
- Mar 26, 2014
- #14
entangledbank said:
Subjunctive clauses don't change their verb form. It's in the plain form ('buy', 'go', 'be') whatever the main verb is (past or present). So:
I suggest she buy a car.
I suggested she buy a car.
I am going to suggest she buy a car.This is the usual construction in AmE. In BrE it is more common to use 'should'. This also is unchanged, and so is the verb after it - in the plain form after 'should' or any other modal:
I suggest she should buy a car.
I suggested she should buy a car.In BrE but not AmE you can also use a finite verb (a verb with tense). This changes according to the tense of the main verb:
I suggest she buys a car. [present + present]
I suggested she bought a car. [past + past]
OK
Thanks for the explanation.
I think we can name your first 3 sentences as different types of subjunctive applications.
I suggest she buy a car.
I suggested she buy a car.
I am going to suggest she buy a car.
Very good explanation here.
But what about the last 2 sentences...
That was I want to focus on.
Are they really subjunctives . ?
I suggest she buys a car. [present + present]
I suggested she bought a car. [past + past]
I think they should not be.
But I am not sure.
entangledbank
Senior Member
London
English - South-East England
- Mar 26, 2014
- #15
You're right: only the first three are subjunctive. That's what I meant, though it wasn't clear. The next two can be called modal because they use a modal verb 'should'. The final two are indicative - the opposite of subjunctive. Indicative clauses have verbs with tense ('buys' or 'bought').
If you want a name for all of these sentences, they are mandative (this is a comparatively new term which is not common in grammar books). All of the sentences express the same sort of thing: a command, a demand, a suggestion, etc. They use three different grammatical structures: subjunctive, or modal, or indicative.
santo98rini
Senior Member
TÜRKÇE
- Mar 26, 2014
- #16
entangledbank said:
You're right: only the first three are subjunctive. That's what I meant, though it wasn't clear. The next two can be called modal because they use a modal verb 'should'. The final two are indicative - the opposite of subjunctive. Indicative clauses have verbs with tense ('buys' or 'bought').
If you want a name for all of these sentences, they are mandative (this is a comparatively new term which is not common in grammar books). All of the sentences express the same sort of thing: a command, a demand, a suggestion, etc. They use three different grammatical structures: subjunctive, or modal, or indicative.
OK.
Now it is clear enough for me.
Thank you very much for your explanation
Yiagos
Member
Δωρεάν μαθήματα Ελληνικών => add me on Skype
Greek
- Mar 26, 2014
- #17
Wow, a very interesting thread. << Moderator's note: The above links to the Englishpage.com page on the subjunctive. >>
I had never heard about subjuctive clause!
I was wondering why we use subjuctive; it emphasizes urgency or importance.
I found this link hope it helps all ESL guys.
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